I recently had a passionate debate with a German friend about whether Islam lies at the root of the dysfunction in Islamic societies and whether it can be reformed.
Thanks for setting this out so clearly Maral. I think so many in the west absolutely do not understand this foundational nature of Islam. I see that many are also frightened by the violence and rhetoric that accompanies so much of Islam. They’d prefer to stick their head in the sand and hope it all “blows over” but as you describe there is zero historical precedent to suggest this. It’s important to understand it cannot in its very nature be reformed.
Thanks for writing this. I really appreciate the distinction between moderate Muslims and "moderate Islam" - I've been saying similar things but hadn't hit on such a succinct way of expressing that.
Quran, Surah Al-Furqan (25:63) – “And the servants of the Most Merciful are those who walk upon the earth humbly, and when the ignorant address them [harshly], they say [words of] peace.”
were members of the kkk not claiming themselves as a "christian organization"? do you see the rest of the world blaming the entire religion for their acts? no. so stop being so racist.
My brother, comparing the KKK to Islamic fundamentalism is false equivalency, and I think you know that. There are entire Muslim countries that want to eradicate the state of Israel as a matter of foreign policy, and indeed have started wars with Israel to achieve that goal. The U.S. has never adopted the KKK's philosophy on race or any other matter on a national level, let alone fought wars to further the organization's racist goals. You're making a false comparison.
You must have missed the large number of lawmakers - Senators, Congressmen and even a Justice on the Supreme Court - who were members of the Klan in its second, and most popular incarnation. Say 1915-1930 or so. Including future President Harry Truman. Nor have you availed yourself of Woodrow Wilson's racial views and actions in office.
At one time in the mid-1920s it was dangerous to oppose the Klan and two successive Presidents (who were not members) mainly kept their mouths shut to avoid the blowback.
I didn't miss anything, thanks. And setting aside the fact that you're talking about things that happened a hundred years ago, how does any point you made pertain to the point that I made that none of the KKK's racial views wound up being a matter of U.S. foreign policy?
And even if you can make some wheedling, tenuous argument to that effect, you're still talking about a century-old era. And if you want to widen your scope and talk about government-perpetrated racial injustices in a domestic or foreign context, have at it. Those cases exist.
But you will never be able to credibly make the case that the KKK's impact on the U.S. is equivalent - or even close - to the impact that Islamic fundamentalism has had on Mulsim-majority nations. And that is what my comment was about. So, what exactly are you talking about? Why are you here on this thread? Please go grind your axe somewhere else if you can't track the topic of the conversation and engage in good faith.
Bro, you replied to dozens of comments criticizing your religion for being violent and evil. The evidence is overwhelming. Maybe what you don't have time for is the cognitive dissonance you feel when trying to defend your religion while knowing that, by and large, the people criticizing Islam on this post have a point. It doesn't "make me feel better." It's the truth.
Thank you for this excellent piece. One question which you alluded to towards the end, so what do we do next to combat this? It’s really like a cancer spreading right throughout humanity
According to The Scroll 3/25/2025: Eighty-three SJP chapters, including Columbia’s, signed and put out a document in support of Hamas on midnight at the end of the day of Oct. 7, 2023, and the suit implies that these documents must have been written, edited, and signed well before the attacks transpired, meaning that THESE GROUPS INDEED WERE AWARE THAT THE SLAUGHTER WAS GOING DOWN (emphasis mine). The Bears for Palestine solidarity statement, shared on Oct. 8, 2023, as part of a national SJP toolkit, honored Hamas terrorists’ actions as a “revolutionary moment” in Palestinian resistance. The Day of Resistance Toolkit included Oct. 7-themed graphics, one of which Kiswani published on Instagram on Oct. 7, a day before the toolkit was released. The creators of that toolkit argued that Israelis killed during the massacre couldn’t be civilians because they were “occupiers.”
Thank you for a great overview. I have also tried to explain to people over the years that Islam itself cannot be reformed since it is doctrinally perfect. But I think the way you articulated it is better - there are moderate Muslims, but there is no moderate Islam.
However, what about strands like Sufism? Some people might point to it as a more 'peaceful' version, although even if it is, it will always be overshadowed by the fundamental movements of Salafism, Wahhabism etc.
Also, I have encountered a form of justification for the violence of Islamic ideology. Since Western politics has interfered with Middle Eastern, Iranian and North African countries for decades, this political disruption has led to the rise of violent Islamists and provided fertile breeding ground for a more aggressive form of Islam. In other words, if Western politics hadn't interfered, these Islamic countries would be essentially peaceful and we wouldn't have the kind of jihadist actions seen today. Therefore, the 'fault' lies entirely with the West and not Islam. It would be interesting to know how one might push back on such a stance.
That’s why Israel views nuclear Iran as the existential threat - martyrdom erases what kept the current nuclear countries from using these weapons against each other.
I want to be the inconvenient educator, especially as a former Christian from/living in the USA who is surrounded by other former Christians who dismiss/ignore Islam at best or romanticize/fetishize it at worst. I have ZERO tolerance for the latter…my patience is being tested by the former. I appreciate your post. I feel very alone in my opinions, feelings, and concerns.
We’ve made a categorical mistake in “the West”: classifying as ‘religion’ things that are theocratic constitutions and systems of laws, justified on pseudo-history, stories that rely on all sorts of supernaturalist ficta and fantasias, all of which add up to a circular metaphysics as the rationale for totalitarian authority.
Strip Sharia out of Islam and you have a religion.
With it, Islam is a competitive system of government, illiberal in the extreme, with no element of democracy, which at the limit is the people’s power to remove the leaders.
It’s fundamentally incompatible with our civilization, and Muslims should practice what they preach and emigrate back to their lands.
(And lest you jump to “Islamophobia … cancel, cancel, cancel” … the same should apply to Rome’s Canon Law, Jerusalem’s Talmud and Delhi’s Hindutva.)
I'd suggest that even without Sharia, Islam is a cunningly crafted system for creating a religious monoculture without direct religious persecution, and a very well constructed system of gearing a population for warfare. Hence the conquests and the fact that Islam has rarely been pushed back.
With that said, secular application of religious principles is essentially the point. The crusading spirit and religious support for reactionary and/or illiberal regimes around the world didn't come from nowhere. Otherwise, stoicism might have been sufficient.
Agree. Although creating an aggressive, expansionist illiberal monoculture is greatly facilitated by gaining control of the ultimate coercive power, the state ... which I sort of equate with "systems of laws". (Yes, I realize one can have despotic personal or elite rule without ever writing much down.)
Here in the USA and West/G7++ ("our side"), those of a theocratic bent are working the system to gain power in ~legitimate ways. Like minarets in Minneapolis being allowed to boom out the prayer call five times a day. It wasn't jihadis on horseback who produced that breach of the separation of church and state.
Not sure I agree with you about Islam not being pushed back. For a century in places like Turkey, Egypt, Iran, Iraq and Indonesia it had been pushed out of civil power, where all religions belong. Secularism in those parts of the world was dominant, until the reaction in the 1970s.
Overall, though, I imagine we're aligned on Islam as a problem.
Where we might diverge is I'm opposed to all religions that try to control the law. Islam might be the UK's #1 problem right now, but here in America it's the conservative Christianities, Rome's and Dixie's. India's problem is Hindutva. Israel's problem is Talmud.
Thanks for setting this out so clearly Maral. I think so many in the west absolutely do not understand this foundational nature of Islam. I see that many are also frightened by the violence and rhetoric that accompanies so much of Islam. They’d prefer to stick their head in the sand and hope it all “blows over” but as you describe there is zero historical precedent to suggest this. It’s important to understand it cannot in its very nature be reformed.
Thanks for writing this. I really appreciate the distinction between moderate Muslims and "moderate Islam" - I've been saying similar things but hadn't hit on such a succinct way of expressing that.
Islam is evil
Quran, Surah Al-Furqan (25:63) – “And the servants of the Most Merciful are those who walk upon the earth humbly, and when the ignorant address them [harshly], they say [words of] peace.”
Is that how Hamas responded to Uday Nasser Saadi al-Rabbay? Are members of Hamas not servants of the most merciful?
were members of the kkk not claiming themselves as a "christian organization"? do you see the rest of the world blaming the entire religion for their acts? no. so stop being so racist.
My brother, comparing the KKK to Islamic fundamentalism is false equivalency, and I think you know that. There are entire Muslim countries that want to eradicate the state of Israel as a matter of foreign policy, and indeed have started wars with Israel to achieve that goal. The U.S. has never adopted the KKK's philosophy on race or any other matter on a national level, let alone fought wars to further the organization's racist goals. You're making a false comparison.
You must have missed the large number of lawmakers - Senators, Congressmen and even a Justice on the Supreme Court - who were members of the Klan in its second, and most popular incarnation. Say 1915-1930 or so. Including future President Harry Truman. Nor have you availed yourself of Woodrow Wilson's racial views and actions in office.
At one time in the mid-1920s it was dangerous to oppose the Klan and two successive Presidents (who were not members) mainly kept their mouths shut to avoid the blowback.
I didn't miss anything, thanks. And setting aside the fact that you're talking about things that happened a hundred years ago, how does any point you made pertain to the point that I made that none of the KKK's racial views wound up being a matter of U.S. foreign policy?
And even if you can make some wheedling, tenuous argument to that effect, you're still talking about a century-old era. And if you want to widen your scope and talk about government-perpetrated racial injustices in a domestic or foreign context, have at it. Those cases exist.
But you will never be able to credibly make the case that the KKK's impact on the U.S. is equivalent - or even close - to the impact that Islamic fundamentalism has had on Mulsim-majority nations. And that is what my comment was about. So, what exactly are you talking about? Why are you here on this thread? Please go grind your axe somewhere else if you can't track the topic of the conversation and engage in good faith.
"The US has never adopted the KKK's philosophy"
think whatever you want and whatever makes you feel better. dont have time for this.
Bro, you replied to dozens of comments criticizing your religion for being violent and evil. The evidence is overwhelming. Maybe what you don't have time for is the cognitive dissonance you feel when trying to defend your religion while knowing that, by and large, the people criticizing Islam on this post have a point. It doesn't "make me feel better." It's the truth.
Thank you for this excellent piece. One question which you alluded to towards the end, so what do we do next to combat this? It’s really like a cancer spreading right throughout humanity
Brilliant essay.
The fact that it is set in stone and can never leave its Medieval mind set is why they need to be stopped
According to The Scroll 3/25/2025: Eighty-three SJP chapters, including Columbia’s, signed and put out a document in support of Hamas on midnight at the end of the day of Oct. 7, 2023, and the suit implies that these documents must have been written, edited, and signed well before the attacks transpired, meaning that THESE GROUPS INDEED WERE AWARE THAT THE SLAUGHTER WAS GOING DOWN (emphasis mine). The Bears for Palestine solidarity statement, shared on Oct. 8, 2023, as part of a national SJP toolkit, honored Hamas terrorists’ actions as a “revolutionary moment” in Palestinian resistance. The Day of Resistance Toolkit included Oct. 7-themed graphics, one of which Kiswani published on Instagram on Oct. 7, a day before the toolkit was released. The creators of that toolkit argued that Israelis killed during the massacre couldn’t be civilians because they were “occupiers.”
Thank you for a great overview. I have also tried to explain to people over the years that Islam itself cannot be reformed since it is doctrinally perfect. But I think the way you articulated it is better - there are moderate Muslims, but there is no moderate Islam.
However, what about strands like Sufism? Some people might point to it as a more 'peaceful' version, although even if it is, it will always be overshadowed by the fundamental movements of Salafism, Wahhabism etc.
Also, I have encountered a form of justification for the violence of Islamic ideology. Since Western politics has interfered with Middle Eastern, Iranian and North African countries for decades, this political disruption has led to the rise of violent Islamists and provided fertile breeding ground for a more aggressive form of Islam. In other words, if Western politics hadn't interfered, these Islamic countries would be essentially peaceful and we wouldn't have the kind of jihadist actions seen today. Therefore, the 'fault' lies entirely with the West and not Islam. It would be interesting to know how one might push back on such a stance.
"In other words, if Western politics hadn't interfered, these Islamic countries would be essentially peaceful..."
It's another variant of "Western people and civilization = Original Sin"
That’s why Israel views nuclear Iran as the existential threat - martyrdom erases what kept the current nuclear countries from using these weapons against each other.
Islam is an evil ideology
I want to be the inconvenient educator, especially as a former Christian from/living in the USA who is surrounded by other former Christians who dismiss/ignore Islam at best or romanticize/fetishize it at worst. I have ZERO tolerance for the latter…my patience is being tested by the former. I appreciate your post. I feel very alone in my opinions, feelings, and concerns.
Islam is a cancer.
We’ve made a categorical mistake in “the West”: classifying as ‘religion’ things that are theocratic constitutions and systems of laws, justified on pseudo-history, stories that rely on all sorts of supernaturalist ficta and fantasias, all of which add up to a circular metaphysics as the rationale for totalitarian authority.
Strip Sharia out of Islam and you have a religion.
With it, Islam is a competitive system of government, illiberal in the extreme, with no element of democracy, which at the limit is the people’s power to remove the leaders.
It’s fundamentally incompatible with our civilization, and Muslims should practice what they preach and emigrate back to their lands.
(And lest you jump to “Islamophobia … cancel, cancel, cancel” … the same should apply to Rome’s Canon Law, Jerusalem’s Talmud and Delhi’s Hindutva.)
I'd suggest that even without Sharia, Islam is a cunningly crafted system for creating a religious monoculture without direct religious persecution, and a very well constructed system of gearing a population for warfare. Hence the conquests and the fact that Islam has rarely been pushed back.
With that said, secular application of religious principles is essentially the point. The crusading spirit and religious support for reactionary and/or illiberal regimes around the world didn't come from nowhere. Otherwise, stoicism might have been sufficient.
Agree. Although creating an aggressive, expansionist illiberal monoculture is greatly facilitated by gaining control of the ultimate coercive power, the state ... which I sort of equate with "systems of laws". (Yes, I realize one can have despotic personal or elite rule without ever writing much down.)
Here in the USA and West/G7++ ("our side"), those of a theocratic bent are working the system to gain power in ~legitimate ways. Like minarets in Minneapolis being allowed to boom out the prayer call five times a day. It wasn't jihadis on horseback who produced that breach of the separation of church and state.
Not sure I agree with you about Islam not being pushed back. For a century in places like Turkey, Egypt, Iran, Iraq and Indonesia it had been pushed out of civil power, where all religions belong. Secularism in those parts of the world was dominant, until the reaction in the 1970s.
Overall, though, I imagine we're aligned on Islam as a problem.
Where we might diverge is I'm opposed to all religions that try to control the law. Islam might be the UK's #1 problem right now, but here in America it's the conservative Christianities, Rome's and Dixie's. India's problem is Hindutva. Israel's problem is Talmud.
The cost for doing this will be high
Brilliant, thank you.
When it's all said and done, good will ultimately overcome evil.
"Your kingdom come, Your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven."
How'd that work out for Constantinople?
Excellent piece, I wrote something similar (albeit at a lower resolution) a while back: https://www.ymeskhout.com/p/there-are-no-amendments-in-islam